Hitting Enter after entering Shift-Enter mode acts differently

Repo steps:

  • Create card A
  • Hit Shift-Enter
  • This creates a new connected card. Enter card name

Current behavior:

  • Hit Enter
  • This creates a new connected card to card A. If you hit Enter again, it just shifts this card down.

Prior behavior:

  • Hitting Enter
  • This would create a new card under card A
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I may not understand the issue/expected behavior. Following your repro steps the current behavior makes sense to me

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I’m pretty sure the original behavior was, on step D, the second time you hit Enter, you get an edit card dialog under created card A (same x). So it kinda allowed you to move back up in hierarchy. (right @kordumb? :))

Correct, I believe…

I don’t remember the exact behavior, I wanted it to move back (https://kinopio.club/-shift-enter-note-flow-K3g9iC6aRxyyf0eyaTN9d), but I’m not sure the exact behavior (whether it went down, unconnected or if it went to back to the left at the same y, unconnected, or if it made it’s way all the way back up and under created card A…) – wish I would’ve recorded it in that space.

BUT… I do know for certain that doing a double enter (after shift enter) would break the auto-connection, 100%.

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that’s a helpful diagram and makes sense, though I don’t think double enter is the thing that should trigger outdent (it’s not particularly intuitive). Is there prior art here? What do other mindmapping apps do for outdent?

Ben and I discuss in that space way to the right. But Tab and Shift+Tab is basically the universal key for that behavior, but that probably wouldn’t work with Kinopio because it allows for navigating the screen a bit, which is probably a benefit for accessibility. (Edit: are arrows used in Kinopio? Maybe when a user doesn’t have a cursor in a text box, arrows can navigate Kinopio leaving tab to do some of the outline mechanics? Just a completely not thought out thought…)

While I would love to see something that would allow a real outliner here, I think the main point for this specific thread is a double enter used to be a way to kill the auto-connection while taking rapid notes. The space (and picture you pulled) doesn’t really get to that behavior.

not sure about the exact placement of the Old Second Enter (which I’m now realizing should be Double Enter… sorry for potential confusion there…)

Being able to create a hierarchal outline with connections completely from the keyboard is still a dream feature for me :nerd_face:

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so which of these two options do you want double enter (C) to do

  1. remove the connection?

Screen Shot 2021-12-10 at 12.28.21 PM

  1. or remove the connection and outdent?

Screen Shot 2021-12-10 at 12.28.32 PM

2 would be absolutely beautiful. And basically 90% towards what I lay out in that (extensive) space.

(Theres more to that which I’d love to be added—super-niche (aka only me)— and I’d be happy to really get into it with you—but super not necessary)

Edit: Below is the super-niche, unreasonable behavior in as simple as I can put it, but I know the logic is more complicated:

(As always, happy to explain more, but I know you have more important features that hit a broader audience to get to.)


I think the use case using Kinopio as an outliner is worth exploring. Perhaps it is niche, but it has potential to unlock interop with other systems. Outliners are hot right now. Logseq, Remnote, Roam, Dave Winer’s latest (Drummer), lots of others. Not that they’re new either. People love to think in outlines. (I used Logseq to take lecture notes this semester and appreciated the extra structure vs Kinopio) Also, mind mapping seems to be a common way that people find Kinopio (at least from my informal surveys when people enter the chat). And mind maps are a sort of outline.

A lot of these tools support OPML, which allows for interop.

Kinopio is super flexible and not as structured as an outline, but maybe if there are ways to make it kind work, that might be valuable to bring more people in. It wouldn’t be too hard to import from OPML since you can express hierarchy with positioning and connections (like we’re talking about here). What if there were a way to structure things so you could export?

Just some thoughts, maybe this should be spun into a new thread. Thanks for reading :slight_smile:

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:smiling_face_with_three_hearts::smiling_face_with_three_hearts::smiling_face_with_three_hearts: - nothing to add, but admiration for you expanding on the outline thoughts


just released an update for this. the limitation is that outdenting only goes out one level, let me know if that’s workable.


This is great!

It is still a bit limiting in terms of wanting to jot notes the way my brain works quickly, but I get the limitation/complication of being able to outdent more than once. For 80% of my note taking I’m only going two levels deep anyways so I can definitely work with this.